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Worlds Grade 1 2009

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.. Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Gordy88 on Tue 24 Feb - 11:40:24

As you all know, there will be no foreign judges at this years worlds.

It has set me thinking, with global finances being stretched, added to some overseas bi-annual appearances, will this have an effect on the entry?

Furthermore, will the UK judging allocation affect bands, in that they will not attend as a bit of a protest?

I know UK bands pay a lot to do the Majors, I have no idea what a North American or Australian bands would have to pay, perhaps someone on here would know, a rough per person estimate would be great

My point is, There are about 12 UK G1 bands, plus 2 up from G2, makes 14, add SFU and 78th makes 16.

How many more do we need to even have a qualitying section? If the NA bands don't show, (for whatever combination of reasons) or the Aussies, would that bin the qualifyer?

The same effect could ripple down through the grades but I think I'm right in saying it will be to a lesser degree

cheers
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Redneck on Tue 24 Feb - 12:44:47

Some good points there m8, firstly the S.F.U, 78th's L.A Scots ect have to be admired for their annual trek ( as I've pointed out before this is the RSPBA's WORLDS ) monetary cost to these bands would in fact not be as much IMO as would be our bands doing the 5 majors. Maybe a little more even per head.

Regarding the Quallies..........this is something the R.S.P.B.A have to look into ASAP, what if scenario. Will there be the need?..........the balls in their court m8.

From a personal point of view it'll be tough getting to all this year, but my main objective is Dumbarton ( Ruby's first bootin' a the year ) time da meet up wi Richard, Peter 'n Fiona 'n ma friends after a long break.

Then of course the Worlds. To be honest the lack of overseas judges IMO has no bearing on the results. What do they offer that other judges offer?, I don't care, if yer good enough you'll stand out 'n be in the top 6, if not wid an overseas judge make any difference?...........naw. Not a relevant point IMO.
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Piping Connections on Tue 24 Feb - 13:32:31

Al Cal are in the mix but i dont think Bagad Cap Caval are coming !!!

I am and always have been against Qualifications - your either in the premier grade or your not !!!

From a lower grade point of view i know there are G4 bands who get help from G1 players at every major apart from the Worlds as the Qualification and G4 are on at the same time !!!

I would also enjoy listening to all G1 bands but playing in G4 just now does not allow me to do so !!!!
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Gordy88 on Tue 24 Feb - 16:02:26

Fair points guys,

There is a perception that overseas judges do look after their own, right or wrong I'm not saying, just that it is a perception,

Also, there are some who would say that local judges also look after the non UK bands, 'Cashing in Airmiles' is the phrase, after all, why should a judge not get a wee 3 week Jolly in Aus or USA? all expenses paid etc,, drink and dirty women etc


I'm not saying it is or it isn't, just that some people think that way!!

Regarding qualifications, I remember the days when you had in excess of 30 bands in a grade, that must have been really tough on the judges, so In certain circumstances they can be of help,

On the other hand, I was talking to Trevor Dear at Birmingham last year,. and he was of the opinion that you can't call yourself World Champions if you have not competed against all the bands in the grade.

Thoughful point that.

Again, when you had grades 1 2 3 4, these were the problems, we now have 2 more grades, do we need another 2?

Personally I think we need a lot of things, a cap on band numbers for starters, and then perhaps Grades 1 and 2 being combined and split into 3, that works for majors but not local contests, a more regimented up and down system.

And a huge computer to keep track of it all!! cheers
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Piping Connections on Tue 24 Feb - 16:34:51

Well I agree Gordy m8
The monster is growing out of control and I dont see anyone at RSPBA level big enough to Handle it.
Cap on Bands - I think there is already a self cap going on is there not - ime hearing of at least 3 G1 bands who have closed the doors this year as they have the required amount .
I have said this for some time now that the Grades should be updated
from G6 to G1 forget this nonsence of 4B-4A-3B-3A especially in 4 what does it actually give us - we play the same tunes !!!!!!!!
Music board meeting in middle of March and talk of G4B sticking with the 2/4,s or March Medley,s and 4A small MSR,s getting ready to get int 3 - but then when this was muted at my local Branch there was an outcry from the stewards !!!!! where are we gonna put them we need another ring - how is that gonna work at minors when bands want to play up !!! Tail Wagging the Dog i think, but thats the RSPBA all over.

Bout time the Worlds was a 2 day event anyway if nothing else but to keep the N.I. players sober on the Sat night in Glesga laughing laughing laughing .


while the Worlds is THE comp everyone looks to the expence of bands travelling to the other Majors has to equal what the overseas bands spend to come over.
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by True_Blue_Piper on Tue 24 Feb - 17:34:46

whether you agree or not, the fact is that justice needs to be seen to be to be done....and I may be incorrect but I have never seen anything that would indicate that the likes of Ken Eller or Jim McGillivray have ever been anything but downright fair and honest.

I could however mention (albeit decades old) times when certain Scottish judges have been perceived as anything but fair and honest.

A bit of give and take is what is needed and the realisation that the pipe band world really is international and that there is a need for fairness to be seen and done.

I have heard rumours as to why things are as they are right now, and I may be well wrong, but just because a couple of people from overseas who judge have been less than honest, doesn't mean that all are.

I think there is some hypocrisy going on here.......it's not long ago that a certain "sheep herder" whop produces chanters was being castigated and yet here we are criticizing those from outside of Bonnie Scotchland for similar things.

I am sure there is more to the story that has been publicised, if fault is to bge had, then I think it is with the RSPBA for not promulgating what has occurred and giving the "suspected guiltyu parties" for telling their side of the story.

This is not about George Dubya Bush, it's not about Afghanistan or about politics but about people who love pipe band music...and this now includes bands from the likes of Canada, Australia, USA and even Northern Ireland and Eire (!!!!) so let things be seen to be fair and allow their qualified judges to be a part of it.

RANT .....OVER
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Gordy88 on Tue 24 Feb - 17:58:29

Well said Ron,

Problem, as always, is the RSPBA

Pipe bands need people who are still attached to reality, and have an understanding of what bands want and need.

For example, Judging, There are a lot of judges out there, both drumming and piping, who can stand and judge Grade 1, yet they could never play at the level Grade 1 now is at in their heyday never mind now.

The grades have changed, Grade 1, 20 or 30 years ago is a totally different place than now,

With the greatest of respect to Stormy, its not meant as a slight, but I doubt that the SPPB band that won the worlds in 1985 would get placed today, maybe not even make the final.

There were the class of the field then, and are part of the reason that the grades have come on so far today, everyone else had to get much better to beat them.

The sheep herder?? He seems to be one of the very biggest noises around now, it used to amaze people what he got away with, and still does.

Need to do the Biblical thing and clear the money lenders out of the Temple.

Put me and Redneck in charge, things will go a lot better laughing laughing
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Redneck on Wed 25 Feb - 10:58:11

There has been and will always be those judges who will put certain bands up for alternate reasons. Human nature will not allow anyone to be 100% impartial IMO, if the SFU and say Strathclyde were very close 'n I couldn't split 'em guess who'd get it.

Ron is right, piping now is global.........I've stated earlier I couldn't care less either way if there were oversea judges, I don't.............but there should be.
Totally agree too that there's something not right about this latest episode of RSPBA's annual comedy awards.
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

Post by Reid on Thu 26 Feb - 18:43:59

Piping Connections wrote:Al Cal are in the mix but i dont think Bagad Cap Caval are coming !!!

I am and always have been against Qualifications - your either in the premier grade or your not !!!

From a lower grade point of view i know there are G4 bands who get help from G1 players at every major apart from the Worlds as the Qualification and G4 are on at the same time !!!

I would also enjoy listening to all G1 bands but playing in G4 just now does not allow me to do so !!!!
You are right Richard. Al Cal will be at the World's again this year. Financially speaking it costs the band over $60,000 cnd to make the trip to Scotland each year. I've been on a strict work out regime getting my liver ready for the trip.
cheers
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.. Re: Worlds Grade 1 2009

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