Views on Judges

I have long held the view that there are all types of judges,

Good ones, very good ones, bad ones, incompetant ones, and i'm sad to say it, dishonest ones.

Good ones and bad ones can be dealt with by way of workshops and assessments, anybody can miss a wee slip, which usually morphs into a huge blunder when described by the band that came second,

However, my point is about the latter 2 categories

Could, and should a system be put in place, wherby judges can be dropped from the panel for incompetance? by that I mean continually odd results, not missing a piper not getting up or such like,

What about huge place differences, between the 2 piping judges, that sort of thing, surely someone other than me listens to some of the recordings that are made and thinks, 'what was he judging?'

The last category is easy, should we see a blanket rule barring anyone with a vested interest in the pipe band world from judging?

I would include retailers as well as manufacturers in that, as it is too easy to stick your head out of the tent, look at the chanters the band is playing amd write them off, sad, but has happened regularly for years, this sort of ban, not only makes judging clean, but it is also seen to be clean.

At a cost of around £150 per person just to get a body to a major, thats in the UK, not including spending money, a band with 30 members, plus supporters, needs to know they will get a fair crack of the whip.

Unfortunately the RSPBA dont take Air miles,

Or do they?

Cheers

darn.....for a second I thought I'd taken a wrong turn and ended up in the Delphi Beer Tent Forum.......

Let me just tell you, that I once had a decent Shepherd chanter reed....not that I'm trying to provoke comment....lol

In all seriousness, I know where you are coming from, the subject has gone on for years, and yes, there have been a lot of good ideas.....but in the end the system is never going to be perfect.....you just have to look at the sports world to understand that.

I think the fact is, that no matter who the judge is....he or she will undoubtedly have played in one band or another, or have worked for one bagpipe maker or another, or have been a member of one piping society or another, etc. etc. etc.......at some stage. If not, where on earth would they have got the necessary experience from ?

I'm not mocking, so please don't think I am....on the contrary......I agree, but how far do you take the relationship until a judge is considered "sanitized" ? And who decides ?

My own father used to judge both pipe band and solo competitions, and I know that he took the "unbiased thing" to the nth degree.....so much so that when he went to judge, he wouldn't wear his old regimental / police cap badge, wouldn't wear the regimental / band tie, wouldn't wear a kilt in a tartan of any band he'd ever played with etc. etc......and yet still there were those who would crtiticise about some perceived bias.

There are a lot of good judges out there.....whether in the solo and / or the band circuit....most (but not all) of whom have a vast amount of experience. Sadly, there are also those who know not much more than "sweet fanny adams".......or to translate it into the Gaelic......"a sparrow fart".

The system is not perfect, but where, when and how do you draw the line ?

How do you prove that the Ronnie Lawries, George Lumsdens, Gavin Stoddarts, Iain MacLellans......or for our North American friends.... the Captain Ellers, the Jim McGilliverys or the Bill Livingstones......are any better than certain others ?

By the way, an excellent topic for a thread, which I am sure will get some fantastic viewpoints, even if the subject has been debated more than Maggie Thatcher's guninea pig of a poll tax for Bonnie Tartan Scotchland.

My interest would be.....instead of criticising.....what would you put in place of the current system.....and how would you administer it ?

My interest would be.....instead of criticising.....what would you put in place of the current system.....and how would you administer it ?[/quote]

Absolutely right mate,

I suppose its a 2 part thread,

no. 1 whats wrong, no. 2 how can it be fixed, no. 3 will the association fix it if we can?

Yes I know that three!!

As you say there will be super views, but I always think that the hottest fire makes the strongest steel, so even if a solution can be thrashed out here, members can propose it at band meetings and through their relevant National Council reps,

It is a subject that may or may not need altered, but it does need debated,

TBP, how very strange you mentioned that particular brand of chanter reed

Cheers

.....and of course......do we really need drums at all ?

(running like a blue arsed fly with an African elephant sized kevlar jacket covering the ol' wedding tackle)

Am sayin' nothin', gets me too wound up.

Gordy, the point you raised about bringing the points/views/suggestions up at branch meetings to be raised further is a waste a time m8..............way too many yes men in a position of so called power. Some who couldn't even sound a chanter or tap a drum 'n these cabbages are tellin' us what da do.............SEE, YA GOT ME FLYIN' AFF ON ONE...........told yee.

I would think the world of Competative piping and drumming is too small to be selective to the point of exclusion.
The only answer would be, similar to the outside world, 'Accountability'.
Do judges have to sit down with a panel and be accountable for their decision if they are extreme one way or another?
How do you ensure the panel/committee is accountable?


oh and True............yes

This subject can be talked about and discussed from now until the end of the world and you will never get anywhere.
Those and such as those are in high positions in the "Association" and all the wee different branches and committees are all composed of the same people.
It's a closed shop.

Certain judges were moaned about 20 - 30 years ago and the same judges are still judging.

Just go out there and enjoy yourself. With experience you will know before you start whether you are going to have a good or a bad day.

stormy wrote:This subject can be talked about and discussed from now until the end of the world and you will never get anywhere.
Those and such as those are in high positions in the "Association" and all the wee different branches and committees are all composed of the same people.
It's a closed shop.

Certain judges were moaned about 20 - 30 years ago and the same judges are still judging.

Just go out there and enjoy yourself. With experience you will know before you start whether you are going to have a good or a bad day.

Wise words indeed stormy,

Used to piss me off a lot, but with age comes experience, now I go out and please myself,

Cheers

Drumlough.......seem to have pretty much had.....never-ending good days last season LOL.

Aye, but this year it'll be no walk in the park, but just as Stormy said...........ya can only do yer best. Thing is, the same judges will be judging us this year, albeit at a higher level............will they still be as complimentary as last year?........if not, does it make them crap judges?

Not in my book,...........what y'all think?, if the band has indeed raised it's standards prizes will be won, but, on merit..........hopefully.

on merit ?

Thought you said you were buying "thingummiejigger's"
pipe chanters this year and that you'd also bought a heap of "otherthingummiejiggers" reeds.....

....isn't that merit ?

Goog thread, i think in general the judges do a pretty good job there are obviously the odd couple (nameless) that may be bias. I did hear about a near brawl the year Viccy Polis won the worlds because it was rumoured that a judge felt they should have won the year before (which they should) and placed them first at shotts expence. So goes to show what goes around comes around. Ensemble should be judged by someone from outside the pipe band world lassical conductor or the like on bands are juded on the musical perforamnce rather tahn a 3rd piping judge or 2nd drumming judge.

True_Blue_Piper wrote:on merit ?

Thought you said you were buying "thingummiejigger's"
pipe chanters this year and that you'd also bought a heap of "otherthingummiejiggers" reeds.....

....isn't that merit ?

..........class. We don't go wi the flow m8............just do our own thing.....Hmmmmm, maybe that's where we are goin' wrong?

bondy wrote: I did hear about a near brawl the year Viccy Polis won the worlds because it was rumoured that a judge felt they should have won the year before (which they should) and placed them first at shotts expence.

Would that a been in a certain beertent m8?..........class, a was there.

What the heck, it's Christmas.........

here's a view FOR the judges..........

stormy wrote:What the heck, it's Christmas.........

here's a view FOR the judges..........

Aye m8, 'n a few a these too......... :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu1: , big boys done it 'n ran away.

Have a good un.......... :squirrel: